Rants: Comparing consoles and games makers through the ages, awarding the crown for handling each genre or type of game the very best!  Game ON!

Main fight groups are: 8-bit (NES, MS etc.), 16-bit (Snes, MD etc.), Last Gen consoles (N64, Dreamcast etc.). Handhelds are also mentioned briefly.

At least three people are commenting on this page (myself and the two Matts, Mat Owen and Matt Kelly), so you will have to mentally sort out in your head who is saying what.  My own text was the last text to be added and so will not have any '>' markings at all.

Let the games begin!

>Super Street Fighter 2 really wasn't all that. The Megadrive and Snes were
>basically split between SF2 Turbo and SF2 Special Champion Edition.

I would still have to call Turbo. The sounds were lovely. Best ever on the
snes imho. And although the Mega Drive was faster, that's only if you had a
UK snes, anyway ;) Most of the gaming world had a snes that ran 16 per cent
faster than ours did.
Also, the 16 colours of the mega drive compared to the snes' mighty 256 ?
Gimme a break here ;) I watched two monitors identical once in a store, both
were playing the demos of the respective SF games back to back. Watching
them was like watching a boxing fight between butterbean and Bart Gun.
Simple - one thought it was kind of hard and quite cool - got in the ring
and got knocked out :> The one thinking it was cool here would be the MD
version. It looked HORRIBLE. The colour numbers difference really shows it
all up.

>Winner: Snes, or Capcom.

Agreed.

>Gah! Tekken 3, gag, choke, cough! Best my arse!

Er ... agreed :)

>Now, lets look at the Dreamcast. You can start with Marvel Vs Capcom,
>Marvel
>Vs Capcom 2, Soul Caliber, Virtua Fighter 3, Street Fighter 3, Street
>Fighter 3 Double Impact, Street Fighter 3 3rd Strike, Street Fighter Alpha
>3, Capcom Vs SNK, Power Gem Fighters, Power Gem Fighters 2, Dead or Alive,
>Dead or Alive 2...

So the DC has a few BEUs. However, many of them are rehashes of games
players have already played on other formats or played to death in the
arcades. There's nothing original like Mace or Killer Instinct. However, the
DC would definitely get points here through choice if nothing else.

As an ex-fighter, I see the pull of 'real' fighting games that have chars
who fight martial style. However, they simply aren't original anymore. The
concept's been worn too thin imho. Graphically they are still arriving and
still improving but there's nothing new there - once you've beaten one of
the SF new generation titles, what do you have to play now that is
/different/, and not just another anime kicker in karate pants?
That is why I think Nintendo have done good for allowing non-conformist
titles like KI Gold and Mace onto their systems. Lest we not forget the
concept of Bio-Hazard also. Another controversial BEU that flopped a fair
bit because it didn't play very well - but the original /idea/ was a good
one.
The big N have shown on their N64 that they want BEUs that move away from
the traditional SF type of Ryu and Ken fisting it out with each other (pardon
the French), into areas like biohazard, mace and KI.

>As for the N64... Beat em ups is not a strong point for it. Killer Instinct
>Gold gets eaten alive by any game in the above list, Super Smash Brothers
>is great, but not more so then Power Gem Fighters.

SSB has made more of an impact. EVERYONE knows about SSB. Without bias -
they really do. Power Gem Fighters simply wasn't pushed much and the
characters aren't classic well knowns in the same way Mario and co are.
BTW, heard the rumour that a future Smash Brothers game MAY include Sonic?
Then we can finally get to stage the big fight live - Mario vs Sonic !!!
Whoo hoo!! Think of the /move/ potential!

Really the fighting game
>that should come out but won't is Mario Vs Sonic...

Oh, now Sega have left the hardware market - maybe it will >:) Chars like
Knuckles, Shadow and Robotnik/Eggman could also be included.

>Winner: Dreamcast with a Double Perfect KO Super Combo Level 3 Finish

I will stick my neck out here and say that there should be two awards - one
for traditional martial style real fighting prowess, Street Fighter type and
two; original BEU types. I feel the N64 is the only console currently with
us that has demonstrated a true love for allowing original BEU concepts to
try their hand. So I would give the Fighting crown to the DC probably - but
the original battle /concepts/ crown to the N64.

> >RPG:  Snes Vs. Megadrive - Snes wins with Final Fantasy 6

>I've never understood the love affair with the Final Fantasy games, they do
>jack for me. Winner: SNES, magic rock bombard attack cannon!

Yes :)

The N64 does of course
>have the Zelda games and it would be foolish of any one to dismiss them.
>However having played them I have to say that it doesn't feel like a new
>environment, it doesn't suck the player into a world of suspended disbelief.
>All the NPC's are rather static...
>Which brings you on to the Dreamcast and Shenume. Winner: Dreamcast,
>Shenume has a built in Master system.

I have yet to see this game - but if it is half as good as everyone keeps
saying it is, then I'll agree that it deserves to be crowned. However, Zelda
64 was the most anticipated game of all time, hitting all known hype levels
before it's release and selling out worldwide, everywhere. Shops were
actually having to display signs to tell you they had none to stop their
stores being filled with screaming players. I can still remember the queue in
Dixons in Woolwich of ppl wanting to order theirs and wondering which week's
shipment they could get into in time!

> >First Person:  Snes Vs. Megadrive - Snes wins again, with Doom.  See a
> >                trend here?

>Eh? First Person games very much sucked on the 16 bit consoles.

Good point - they did - but Doom was a classic game and it defined it's
genre. Therefore it wins here, simply because it existed on the snes.

>Winner: No one. Maybe ID for flogging the Doom game yet again.

Yep.

>Hrm... Golden Eye is very good, it drips layers upon layers of atmosphere
>and looks really good in the process.

Was playing it only earlier today - great game! It's still fun right now.
The benchmark of a true classic.

>Winner: N64, because it's the definitive Bond, James Bond.

There really is no contest here. Please Nintendo, bring out a Game Cube
version ! The very /thought/ excites me...
Goldeneye is an old movie. We don't give a rat's arse!! The game ruled.
Goldeneye II is just hunky dorey with me, with 128 bit graphs? YES! YES!! OH
YES, BABY! Ahem.

> >Racing:  Snes Vs. Megadrive - Mario Kart.  'Nuff Said.

>Winner: Snes, red shell barrages!!

Oh yess. Mario Kart just had 'that thing'. It was crisp. You could lose
friends over that game >:) However - 2 player? Only the N64 allowed the four
player, am I right? There's something we tend to forget. Just shows you how
fecking GREAT the original was then, doesn't it? That even with 2 players,
it still outlived everything else around it.

>The N64 version of Mario Kart was a tragic waste. It really does play
>horribly in comparison with the crisp handling Snes original.

Yes but - it's still Mario kart and you can still do all the stuff that made
the original so bastingly good - and it was four player!
The first console ever to have 4 player ports, might I add.
Although the Snes was the only machine ever to implement a Hudson five way
port add on and USE IT for a game (Bomberman 3).

>Winner: Dreamcast, MSR, much Kudos.

Not played it. I hate racing games that are serious, in the main. Mario Kart
does it for me personally because it's still a BEU in cars >:)
I used to love Road Rash on the MD for this very same reason...

> >Sport:  Snes Vs. Megadrive - Wow, a win for Sega with Fifa '95 or
> >         whatever it was back then...

>The Fifa games blew on both formats...

Yes >:)

>Winner: EA Sports, erm I mean Megadrive.

EA Sports /were/ the Mega Drive :)

>On the Dreamcast you have the Vritua Sports games, which are all really
>rather good.

>On the N64 you have Mario Tennis, which is rather playable and Mario Golf,
>again rather playable.

I hate serious sports games as well. If you wanna play football, ffs go out
and play it! :) Mario Golf for me.

>Winner: Eh, I don't care as long as it's not the pile of crap on the PS.

I would call Mazza's Golf simply because it was a shock to everyone to
discover that a Plumber that everyone keeps calling boring could turn golf
into a game that everyone wouldn't mind owning and certainly enjoyed
playing. Plus, serious sports that are real are not for games machines. Sorry
- football games suck the biggest ass ever ever ever. Play the game, you
potatoes >:)
Why does Mario turn any game into a gem? I honestly don't know. Ask Shiggsy
who is in charge of making them play so damn well ;)

> >Platform:  Retro - I'll be pushy here and award this as a DRAW!
> >            Mario All Stars (With World) and Sonic & Knuckles.

>Sod Draws, I'm going with the Megadrive.

Hell no! Mario 3 was the best game ever until Mario World came around. Think
back to that actual time period when everyone at school was talking about
where they were stuck on Mario 3. And wanting to warp to world 8 where the
pirate ship level was. Those maps were to cast the ground for every platform
game since, as well. Every game since then has had world maps in platform
games - Mario 3 started that. Plus, in Mario 3 you could interact with the
world map, it wasn't just a picture that did nothing and showed you where
you were going. You could change direction, go back and stuff (again - a
never before seen option in platform games!), and judge where you wanted to
go ie; if you were ready to face the Hammer Bros you'd head that way and
time your walk to meet them where you wanted to meet them. All this on the
damn map screen! Plus warp whistles, plants in the tubes ... boats taking you
around the map, man I feel like playing it again now! :)
Card games, fruit machines - oh and before you all forget ...
THIS IS THE NES. 8 Bit. Mario 3. Yes, you're right, it /was/ God in a
cartridge. In a poll a year or so ago it was voted the most influential game
ever and the best game ever. You can clearly see why.

I really rather enjoy playing Super
>Mario World, it's lots of fun.

It was Mario 3 with bells on. Great game! But it owned everything to it's
little brother on the NES.

Also you all need to get ZSNES and a copy of
>Yoshi's Island, that's another long forgot classic.

Again - a game that owes it's brilliance and playability (which are both
high) to Mario 3.
But please, let's not mention Yoshi's Story or the Super Happy Happy Tree :/

>However if you want brand marking, genre defining, pick up and play classic
>game play then I can only give you, the one, the only, the coolest of them
>all.... Sonic the Hedgehog!

Er ... you have GOT to be kidding me. If you took that side by side in the
industry with Mario 3, Sonic did NOTHING. He spun and went forward and
around in circles and stuff, it was fun; but my gripe with all the sonic
games that still exists today in Sonic Adventure II (which Swag brought
over) is this.
You can't SEE ANYTHING as you travel through the game. Only recently did
they even bother to implement a map section. It runs too fast in many places
and putting your head down and spinning isn't puzzle solving.
Modern Sonic games are starting to kill off the old sonic feel, thank God.
However, they still suffer from a pointless sensation of "Why am I here?"
when you arrive at a new level - bizarre cut scenes that mean absolutely
nothing at all like the one on Sonic Adventure I where you drift through a
hole in the planet to come out the other side for no reason whatsoever and
all these things whirl around you ... and my two biggest sonic gripes:
Speedy sections where you totally miss the point of where you are and don't
get to see the level design at all and b...
The levels make no sense. STILL on Sonic Adventure II, this is evident. I
told Swag this and I'm not sure if he agrees this is a major problem the
sonic games have always had - but to me it's simply bonkers to have levels
full of loops and things perfectly laid out for a small, spinning hedgehog,
and NOTHING ELSE. If he was on a world full of hedgehogs it might actually
make some sort of sense, but it doesn't on Earth.
Why on earth is a human space station a roller coaster? That's what it is.
WHY??? Why, why, why? It ruins the game, it insults the intelligence and the
feel for the gamer of why they are there.
Sonic's games are roller coasters built for sonic to whirl around. It's fun
but it's not a platform challenge - it's a roller coaster challenge with
sonic in it. I hope they break this mould with future sonic games and make
the world's into less than a glorified pinball machine or roller coaster
with grass and pools in to make it seem like a world.

>Winner: Sonic!!!

Sonic would be beaten into a coma any day of the week, or make that any year
of the past by Shigsy's Mario. Just let's take out Sonic II and Mario 3 and
play them both, shall we? Seriously, we could, I have both.
Let's actually go back there and forget modern machines and play them again.
I played both and Sonic II lasted under a week. I could sum it up with this:
Solve a few puzzles, walk through a few walls to find secrets which are sort
of fun and er...put your head down and spin. There was a swimming section
but oh boy - Mario 3 out-swam that as well.
Speed wise, Sonic was faster than Mario. But this is not a good thing
necessarily. Personally I take playability over speed any day and well - for
all the reasons described above, Mario changed the face of gaming forever in
Mario 3 and Sonic just showed how fast a platform game COULD run. Trouble
is, platforms should be full of puzzles all the way through and so slower.
Sonic could never really pull it off because he was needing to go fast all
the time.

> >            Next Gen - Definitely M64. Please, don't even try and argue
> >            this. :)

>Hah! Watch me! Mario 64 is possibly one the best games I've ever played. It
>really is just so much damn fun. Buuut, Sonic Adventure is really just the
>same, but cooler!

Seen them both - sorry, the speed ruins it. Sonic Adventure still suffers
the problems already mentioned and Mario 64 was mind-blowingly original in
so many ways, I mean literal 3D platforming for the first time! You could go
anywhere and...no, this is silly. There's simply no way I can list
everything that made Mario 64 one of the most bought games on the 64, and
second to Zelda only in terms of release day hype.

I'm sorry but Sonic is just a much better character then a
>fat plumber.

You know, you /should/ be sooo right. But history has told that a fat
plumber wearing red dungarees and a cap has out-sold, out-played and
out-hyped Sonic all throughout the hedgehog's life. Sonic is FASTER than
Mario, and he appeals to a younger, cooler audience: that's the only
possible time he beats Mario at anything.
And Mario only has a little pot belly and is short - body wise he actually
isn't fat at all, just thought I'd point that out >:) You want fat - E Honda
or Robotnik are fat :P
Almost every games magazine at some point has had this showdown documented
with Mario Vs Sonic. It's the oldest rivalry and one of the most bloody. But
Mario 3 really did change everything about platform gaming forever and I
don't think there will /ever/ be another innovation in the genre to match
that.
Sonic is just nice to have and to burn rubber he sure is fun. But it's just
not serious gaming compared to the depths Mario 3 went to.
Those cool little bouncy pings! The shells! The wings! The swimming! The
tail! Hitting stuff with your tail - rah!!
I love it - I love it - I love it!
It is so good it should be released now. But it wasn't. It was on a humble 8
bit NES.  People were selling out the NES in stores in Japan just to be able
to /play/ Mario 3.

>Mind you, Sonic Adventure isn't perfect, we'll have to wait for Sonic
>Adventure 2 for the crown to be swiped off the plumbers fat head.

It wasn't done. I've seen SAII and it's fast, it's nice looking (in the
places where you can see it) and it even has some semi-original ideas in it
too! All making it a good game, yes. But it doesn't even scratch the surface
of innovation. And it still suffers from the speeding sections, ruining the
game's good looks and the roller coaster/pinball machine levels. It's not a
platformer, it's a pinball game with fantastic graphics and it's fun. Not
denying that at all. But it's not even in the same league as Mario.

>Winner: N64, for now.

Indeed. Only I would say winner - NES, for doing it first and being STILL
playable today >:)

>And finally...

>Wrestling!

>Snes and Megadrive.
>The Snes wins this, Fire Pro Wrestling is what Smackdown and No Mercy are
>using as there bases to work from.
>Winner: Snes via Super Powerbomb Fire Pin.

Yep.

>PS, Dreamcast, N64.
>First off, Dreamcast wrestling games, you are the weakest link, goodbye!
>Secondly, after playing No Mercy I've got to say.. What the hell happened
>to
>WM2K?! WM2K plays a much better game of wrestling, it looks better and has
>by far and away the better intros.
>Which still pail in comparison to the might of Smackdown 2. Winner: PS,
>with a top turnbuckle Dragon Attack!!! The humanity!! He's got
>to be dead!!

Arguable, since a lot of wrestling fans seem to like No Mercy/WM 2000 just
as much. But Smackdown does rock da house.

>So in summing up. The Dreamcast may well be dying but for gods sake people,
>buy one!

Sorry - I'm saving my cash for the Game Cube. Wrestlemania 2001, yay!

>The N64 is I'm afraid on it's way out.

Yes it is. But for what it's done and simply because Goldeneye and Mario 64
are on it, it is well worth having and has left a crater indent on gamers
everywhere.

If the
>Japanese publishers get behind it [Game Cube] full force, in two years no
>one will
>remember what an X-Box or a PS2 looked like.

And this is my solemn belief on the matter ;) Why? Because Nintendo have a
track record of market destruction. Besides - it's time someone taught Bill
Gates that he cannot just BUY the gamers of the world! He may be rich, but
he did not give us the NES. He did not give us hours of screaming blue
murder at one's friends after being shot in licence to kill mode, pistols,
temple! And he did NOT give us a showdown to end all showdowns between the
monstrous Gannon and a determined teenaged Link, with a massive sword. Oh -
and he didn't give us Smash Brothers either! He didn't give us rail surfing
with a blue hedgehog that goes too fast but is great for moments like that
when you want to.

And on the PC, he didn't even give us the Half-Life engine nor the Command &
Conquer RTS engine ... and for those crimes and many many more Mr. Gates,
please ... feck off. Your are not the King. The crowns are taken. And the
wearers are STILL making games now and aren't going to stop and give up just
because you decide to show up.

>But really if you want to see the future of the console market, it came out
>today. It's got four buttons, will have only 2D games on it, needs a couple
>of double a batteries and the format is cartridge. The Gameboy Advance is
>out, let us bow down to the new master.

The Game Boy Advance does indeed 'rock the body that rocks the party'. I
have one, they're great. Buy one.

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